Talk:Arcane Blade - Wiz(5),EK(10),IB(5),AT(10)

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Build Creator: BlackVader

Contents 1 Questions on Character Progression 2 moved frontpage edits to discussion page 3 Very good build...I love it. 4 Improving the Arcane Blade...?

[edit] Questions on Character Progression

EDIT by azual: I tried this build and i have some ideas for improvements:

You don't really need "Able Learner". You can increase all the most important skills without it. "Great INT +1"? - Also a feat that you can use more wise. And finally "Persistent Spell": Just for Haste? I don't know.. i think thats not worth one feat and btw: you can get permanent haste on an item. By this you are able to get Greater 2 Weapon Fighting and Perfect 2 Weapon Fighting. Then you can still take "Persistent Spell" or "Great INT +1". I have chosen "Maximize Spell" for better spellcraft.

Reply by BlackVader (creator of the Arcane Blade):

Yes, Able Learner is not needed for the build itself. However, not having the feat will reduce your total number of skill points and ultimately limit your skill selection. If you want a more combat oriented version of the build, dropping Able Learner is fine, but it is not the Jack-of-all-Trades it is meant to be. So not taking Able Learner is an a bit different approach to the build, and not an actual improvement (unless you are talking from a combat/powergaming point of view).

Great Int raises your int to 24, an even number. Since odd ability scores are not very helpful, I don't consider this feat a waste. It is another point of damage and - more important - another +1 DC to all spells.

About Persistent Spell: Well, I use a mod which also allows me to cast Persistent Displacement. But even without such a mod, persistent Haste is one of the most powerful spells in the game and I'd never want to miss it. And I don't rely on items for my builds. Not everyone who might use the build has access to such items.

Greater TWF is a viable choice, but PTWF simply requires too much Dex. Raising Dex instead of Int is just what the Arcane Blade is NOT meant to be. If you go for a high number of attacks, a build with 10 rogue levels and Epic Precision like The Epic Arcane Trickster is a far better choice. The Blade is more a skillful Wizard/Fighter-hybrid than a rogue-ish Trickster build.

Bottom Line: You make some good points and those are viable variations of the build. But with these changes it would no longer be the "original" Arcane Blade anymore. Maybe you could take the basic idea of an IB-based Trickster and add your own version with PTWF and whatever else you like to the Wiki.

EDIT by Nukebot:

BlackVader...I have a question about the skill point progression. I'm not sure if this is the correct procedure for asking a question since it's my first time on a wiki. When you say to save 5 points at every level before you become an Arcane Trickster do you mean that at level 2 you save 5, then at level 3 5 more (total of 10 saved) and so on? Or do you mean that at level 2 you save 5 points and then at level 3 you spend all points but those 5 and you carry them over and at the next level up you spend all but 5 and carry that same 5 over? So that you're carrying the same 5 points over until Arcane Trickster at level 17. Sorry if this is a noobish question but I usually don't multi-class. This build just seemed too sweet to not try it.

REPLY by BlackVader:

You can't save more than 5 skill points per level. Around level 10 or so, you will have way more skill points per level than you can actually spend due to the lack of class skills. So before you start spending them for rather useless skills, I suggest saving 5 points at each level. Having 5 extra points will help you to raise skills like Tumble, Bluff and Open Lock as soon as possible after get them as class skills via IB or AT.

You might still need to put some opints in skill you don't really want or need. But saving 5 points per level instead of spending all of them all the time is a far better idea, imo.

EDIT by Jim:

I have a question about skill points. The article indicates a total of 270 skill points including presitige class prereqs and the listed skills in the skills section.(Conc 33, Dipl 33, Bluff 33, OL 33, Tmbl 30, Sc 30, UMD 16, Lore 33, Appr 20, DD 7, + 2 for taking a rank of tumble and DD at level 1). When I attempted the build only 255 skill points were available to me. New points per level were something like 20,5,5,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,7,7,9,9,9,9,9,9,10,10,10,10,10,10,10,10,11,9,9. Is this an error somewhere on my part or a typo in the build text? I was just wondering if anyone could tell me where the missing 15 points went.

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reply by Eugene Sharov see the requirements of Arcane trickster http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Arcane_trickster

According to your Character Progression Table, how did you manage to take Arcane trickster without sneak attack 2d6 and spellcraft 4?

REPLY by BlackVader

@Eugene: Spellcraft 4 is listed in the very first level of the progression table. There is still a mistake as I listed only 6 instead of 7 points in lore. I'll add that one. As for Sneak Attack, the IB's Bleeding Wound can be used to meet the sneak attack requirements of the AT. I added this to the build's description at the top of the page quite some time ago since that question showed up multiple times on the NWN2-forums.

@Jim: I'm pretty sure I wrote down those final skill points while looking at a level 30 Arcane Blade's character sheet in the game. So they should be correct. However, I might have added the attribute modifier to some of them or there could be some other mistake. I'll check it again. EDIT: Well, I did make some mistakes with the skill points. You actually don't get as many as I listed. I have no idea where those numbers came from. Maybe I was looking at an earlier human version of the build or something. I'll delete Appraise sso the skill points are a bit closer to the actual number you get. Anyway, the final skill points I listed are meant as a possibility, not a recommendation. Anyone can (and should) use the skill points to create their unique Arcane Blade. Just don't forget the skill requirements for the Prstige Classes.

[edit] moved frontpage edits to discussion page

(edit - this build is good in theory, but whoever wrote this never built the character, it does not meet the requirements for arcane trickster, and EK is not 10 spell casting levels, its 9)

(edit by BlackVader (writer of this build) - I built this character in game multiple times. I never had any problems choosing the arcane trickster. Did you even try it once? Which requirement does it not meet exactly?
And I don't see where I said EK would have 10 spellcaster levels. The final caster level is 5+10+9+4 = 28 (5 from wizard5, 10 from AT10, 9 from EK10 and 4 from Practised Spellcaster), as listed in the Character Creation section.
Please clarify your comments. Thank you in advance.)

[edit] Very good build...I love it.

Your build is great. I've been trying to find a way to make it better, but I keep falling short in one area or the other. I looked at what you said where the "weaknesses" of the build and tried to get some of those into the build while maintaining the spirit of the original. I've tried using variations including the Rouge and Shadow Thief of Amn classes to get the improved uncanny dodge but I always end up short on BAB or overall casting levels. One thing that I did find though was that I was able to get some extra feats like empowered spells etc.

I was wondering if after all this time you'd come up with a way to make the build any better...the thing I'd really wish was that the Invisible Blade would add 1D6 of sneak attack instead of the bleeding attack.

Thanks again for sharing your Blade!

Grendelin

[edit] Improving the Arcane Blade...?

First of all, I'm glad you like the build.

As for improvements... I must admit that I've not been playing NWN2 for quite some time now. I created the Blade at a time when I spend multiple hours per day with the game, thus knowing most classes, feats and spells inside out. This knowledge has fainted a bit by now so I don't think I could come up with real improvements.

Anyway, before I added the build to the wiki, I tried to make it as good as possible (however good you can make a jack-of-all-trades). As you said yourself, it's almost impossible to improve any aspect of the build without hurting one or two other. You can shift some levels here and there without changing too much. The most obvious change would be dropping one level of IB (and thus +1AC) and gaining another wizard level instead for a total caster level of 29 and thus an additional +1 spell DC. But really, as a build with already 4 classes, 3 of them at their max level and one required as very foundation of the Blade, there is little room for changes.

You can pick some different feats here and there, but - just like spending your skillpoints - that's adjusting the build to your personal preferance rather than a real overall improvement. You picked a good example yourself: I personally don't have much use for most meta magic feats like empowered spell. Not with a non-spontaneous caster, anyway.

That being said, I'm not totally sure that the Blade is at its peak. There might still be room for improvements I couldn't think of. I didn't even get SoZ yet, so I don't know about any new feats/spells that might take the build to new glory. But again, this would just be some feat-swappping without too much impact on the build in general. The new classes definitely add nothing to the Arcane Blade. (In fact, the somewhat poor selection of new classes is the main reason why I didn't bother with SoZ yet.)